Michelle Obama with Barack

Former First Lady Michelle Obama candidly discussed the ups and downs in her 33-year marriage to former President Barack Obama during a recent episode of her podcast, "IMO with Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson."

As per Atlanta Black Star, the conversation revealed that parenthood played a significant role in some of their toughest moments as a couple.

During the episode, actors Sterling K. Brown and Ryan Michelle Bathe joined the Obamas to talk about the realities of married life. Brown asked Michelle if she believed some difficult times might have led to separation if their children were not part of the equation.

Michelle Obama acknowledged that having kids contributed to challenges in their relationship. "Sometimes, without kids, some of the tough times wouldn't happen," she said. She explained that without children, couples can maintain more individual freedom and fewer disputes over shared responsibilities.

She elaborated on the complexities of parenting, referencing tasks such as managing dental appointments and doctor visits for their daughters Malia, 27, and Sasha, 24, both of whom work in the entertainment industry and live in Los Angeles.

The former first lady emphasized the love they have for their children but noted that many difficulties stemmed from the demands of raising them. "We love them deeply," she said. "But I think without them, a lot of the hard things don't come up."

Barack Obama also touched on their marriage during an appearance on the "No Lie" podcast with Brian Tyler Cohen, humorously suggesting that Michelle would divorce him if he ran for president again.

Despite earlier struggles, Michelle Obama expressed optimism about their relationship's growth. "The level of muscle that Barack and I have in our marriage is earned. It's earned over time and it's only gotten better," she said. "If you quit too soon, you rob yourself of the success of the better, the work that goes in."

The couple, married since 1992, have been open about their life after two terms in the White House. However, some supporters have expressed discomfort over the couple sharing intimate details about their marriage.

Michelle and Barack Obama Navigate 'New Phase' of Marriage as Empty Nesters

Meanwhile, Page Six reported that Michelle and Barack said they are adjusting to a "new phase" in their marriage now that their daughters have left home.

"Our kids are grown. They're out," Michelle Obama said Wednesday on her podcast, "IMO with Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson."

"We're looking at each other like, 'Hey, I remember you.' Now I'm not mad about anything. I don't need you to do anything for me."

At 62, the former first lady acknowledged that the transition takes time. "It's a new phase of life," she said.

Barack, 64, is also figuring out his identity in this chapter of their lives, Michelle added. "I'm doing the same thing," she said. "That's a whole new assignment that you have to factor in. Now we're back to just me and him. It takes time."

The couple credits their longevity to hard work and mutual effort — especially while raising children.

"Without them, a lot of the hard things don't come up," Michelle said. "When those beautiful, lovely kids we all want show up with their own agendas and their own needs, it's the first major joint project you have to do together."

Michelle urged couples not to give up when times get tough.

"You can go through ten bad years in a 30-year marriage and that's still great odds," she said. "In any long relationship, there is going to be years, months, hours where things just don't feel right. You don't quit on it. You dig deeper."

She said the strength in their marriage has been earned over time and continues to grow. "The level of muscle Barack and I have in our marriage is earned. It only gets better. We've done the work."

Earlier this year, Michelle revealed the couple attends therapy together to maintain their relationship. "I believe in the practice of having those conversations with objective people who help you piece through that stuff," she said on Alex Cooper's "Call Her Daddy" podcast.

Michelle also emphasized the importance of accepting each other's individuality. "I've grown to know I don't have control over him, just like he doesn't have control over me," she said. "So let me do my work and let him do his work and together we come together as whole people."

Originally published on Enstarz